Student Question
Carmen

Link to Carmen's question

Jordan

Thomas Kuhn delves into the concept of paradigms, and how they work within a given scientific field.  I am, however, still slightly confused about exactly what a paradigm is…  The way in which they are described feels similar to how one would attempt to explain Plato’s forms–multiple aspects of them are described; yet, none truly capture the full meaning of the concept.  From what I understand, paradigms are a generally accepted model; alternately, they can serve as a template from which to base new studies (as is more the case in the scientific wourd).  Paradigms can also be replaced when new theories start to go against previous ones (hence the term “paradigm shift”).  Which raises another question: who gets to decide that new findings (observed within the current paradigm’s parameters) might be indicative of an upcoming paradigm shift?  Kuhn mentioned that “a new theory… is seldom or never an increment to what is already known” (7), so how different do these findings have to be if they are not to be considered incremental, and therefore within a reasonable limit? 

Keith (?#1)

In the lecture Dr. Peet made the suggestion that mechanics aren’t sitting around discussing whether the science presented to them is accurate, they just accept what they hear on the news as fact.  I would like to challenge that comment.  I have been a “blue collar” worker for over 25 years now, so I feel lumped in to that category with those mechanics.  I feel that this is a very bold statement and perhaps a dangerous misconception.  That statement seems to suggests that critical thinking is limited to the "hallowed halls of higher learning”.  It has been my experience that, not only is critical thinking and active questioning alive and well in the “blue collar” world, but that even the active questioning of science, which is specifically at issue here, is a wide spread phenomenon.  One need look no further than the wide spread disbelief in global warming here in Alberta to find evidence of that.  By contrast, when the statement was made in the class, neither a class full of university students, many of them science majors, nor the other two professors in the room took issue with it and challenged it critically.  So, the question I pose is this:  Is critical thinking, in fact, limited to universities and institutions of higher learning where people are either paying or being paid to do this sort of thinking and write about it, or is it just as prevalent where people are not paid for it, and therefore less inclined to write an essay or publication of their thoughts?

Keith (?#2)

1 Corinthians 3:18-20

Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”

Maxwell

"A theme that seems present to me in Chapter I is that Kuhn seems to observe that people need to believe in something foundational. That's a bit of a generalization from what he's saying, but not a far stretch. 'That element of arbitrariness does not however indicate that any scientific group could not practice its trade without some set of perceived beliefs (4-5)', 'Because that education is rigorous and rigid, it comes to exert a deep hold on the scientific mind (5).' I recognize this book is talking about those perspectives changing in the forms of scientific revolutions, as we transition from one set of 'truths' to another. 

Nietzsche seemed aware of this as well - we transitioned from a belief in religion and god, to a belief in something else (and he warned that if we didn't find something else we'd slip in to our own abysses). Science seems to be the answer to most 'madmen' (his term), of the non-theists and atheists. Famously the 'best' scientists of our day and age are also atheists. 

What I'm wondering is how could we possibly deceive ourselves to believe that we could ever have an objectively true system of values, and how could people much smarter than most believe this as well? Perhaps its more of a sociological phenomenon, but why do we seem to cling to values, while simultaneously claiming we aren't? Or, perhaps most people are aware of this, but it still doesn't defeat how pop culture scientists, the ones most exalted in celebrity status are the ones who believe in their objectivity, and their 'nothingness.' "

Paula

Would you say that history has somehow conflicted with the concept of science? I mean in the book it says that " the concept of science has developed from historical records”, but then we also see that from a historic point view a new concept of science cannot be establish if we keep studying historic data just for the sake of "answer questions posed by the unhistorical stereotype drawn from science texts” those textbooks quite often try to say that science is completely based of just “observation theories and laws. It feels like history is trying to keep up with science but then something knew comes up because as Scientifics we are often questioning and making knew discoveries based in old experiments using modern science. And so, who is wrong here? History for trying to determine and explain the mistakes and stereotypes that go around science or science for portraying “normal science” as an investigation based entirely in “one or more past scientific achievements, achievements that some particular scientific community acknowledges for a time as supplying the foundations for its further practice”. “paradigms” are what shapes students to emerge into the scientific world and that is exactly something that history suggest provoke some difficulties down the road, not having certain paradigms for the development of science.

Cacey

In chapter one, Kuhn talks about the previous view of looking at the history of science as the compilation or compounding of individual scientists work and inventions in an affect that led to an increase in knowledge and wisdom. He then suggested that in reality, when historians tried to pin point specifics for when inventions were done it was very difficult, often vague, which is when they realized that changes in the way that science was done did not arise from the compounding of knowledge, but really the points of revolution in ideology. I was wondering if by realizing that we have been looking at the history of science wrong, we can create better scientists that do better work or is this really just a nice thing to know and has only bearing on the philosophy and history of science rather than everyday lives of scientists?
In chapter two, Kuhn discusses the need for paradigms for a discipline of science to actually mature, where it can make discoveries that were not thought possible. However, through the maturing of various disciplines of science they start to become so isolated from each other, that you would have to part of the discipline to be able to understand the research that they are preforming. Many people do not like the divide between the common people and scientists or even scientists and other scientists. However, can we really lessen the gap when everything has become so specialized, when research has become so specific? Is there actually something wrong with disciplines of science only being understood specifically by those within it or should there be general understanding of disciplines and the leading research by everyone, even the common public as it was before? What would this even look like?

Sharleigh

Why were theories being resisted by experts instead of embraced and incorporated into developing research? How does resisting truth lend itself to the positive developments in ongoing research and how has that accepted practice of rejection shaped the sciences? Is it possible that too much research could lend itself negatively to scientific research by diluting it? Perhaps it would be beneficial to incorporate relevant information instead of rejecting it completely? A balance between looking to the past and accepting the future? (P.7)
Kuhn states that fundamentals are rarely disagreed upon; however, what if these fundamentals were incorrect to begin with? Does it make the theories that are built upon them inaccurate? (P.11)
Writers on physical optics felt they had to build their fields anew based upon existing foundations. Does this belief of starting over slow down developments in research or perhaps speed them up? Would this rebuilding produce a lack of consistency in results? (P.13)

Trevor
One of the big stumbling blocks for me is when Kuhn talks about the history of science, and how there used to be various schools of thought, and that, in theory, all the men in those schools of thought were scientists. But in examining their work, he gives the example of someone working with light and physical optics before Newton, though they were scientists, the result of their work wasn’t science because it wasn’t done under any sort of paradigm. He just made up his foundations and went from there. So, do we define that science has to be done under a paradigm? And if something radical changes, and the paradigm shifts, then is all the work that was previously science no longer scientific? 
And if that is the case that it no longer is “science,” then how can anything be scientific and “true” if it’s only true until the paradigm shifts away? So, in the future, will all the work we are doing now be non-scientific? Is this a problem with science that Kuhn is trying to address or am I off the mark here?
Emily

 

All matter is made up of atoms. This is the biggest most general statement for all of chemistry it is the over arching paradigm. No matter what specific field of chemistry you’re in, everyone agrees and believes in atomic theory. And in order to try and make my point without a diagram, I’m going to call this paradigm level 1. All other paradigms in chemistry still fall under the level one paradigm. Kuhn makes reference to a the phenomena in the context of optics as the, “Standard set of methods or phenomena that every optical writer felt forced to employ and explain” pg. 13. Over the years there have been many progressions as to what an atom looks like, and the debates are still going on today, yet everyone seems to agree that all matter is made up of these tiny units. Even though, we can’t prove it.

If an atheist and a religious person were having a discussion, and the religious man couldn’t answer the atheists questions about Gods love, or why there is evil. So the religious man replies by saying “you can’t understand it because you’re a sinner”, the atheist wouldn’t consider his friends religion to be very rational because he can’t explain it outside of its own context.

We’re using the same kind of reasoning to prove atoms exist. If we pretend that they exist, we can use x ray crystallography and scanning tunnelling microscopes to “prove” they do. But that’s proving a theory within its own context again. Even in our classes here at kings, there are many different models we use to explain the phenomena (ex, Lewis structures, MO theory), and a lot of the models don’t work when overlapped, meaning they can’t both be true.  Yet no one questions atomic theory. It’s just our models that aren’t accurate enough.

We’ve accepted atomic theory as truth and moved on. Gone a whole lot farther with research, and have ended up creating sub paradigms within the field of chemistry.

So when ground breaking research happens and we hit a “crisis point” you don’t end up challenging the whole level one paradigm. You end up challenging the sub paradigm much more localized to your area of study. You challenge the model. There may be a paradigm shift, but then you move on and keep the research moving forward (maybe in a different direction)  in lieu of the shift.  But no one comes back to question the level one paradigm.

But what if its wrong? Doesn’t that mean that we  just end up digging ourselves deeper into the paradigm we’re in? Making it harder and harder to get out?

The last thought I want to tag on is this is,  on page 16, Kuhn briefly mentions that technology plays a vital role in the emergence of new science. And makes the argument that much of the knowledge we have today could not have been casually discovered, and so, the conclusions scientists drew in the past are no more or less scientific than the conclusions we draw today. Because our technology is still primitive compared to what will exist 100 years from now. But there is one major difference, today we have the ability to store much more information. We don’t even have to remember it, our computers can do that. The amount of evidence we’ve amassed on the basis that atomic theory is true, dwarfs the amount of evidence supporting a scientific paradigm in the past. Which is why I’m not sure we will be able to shift a level one paradigms in any field again.

Stuart

In the first three chapters in the book, The Structure of Scientific Revolution by Thomas Kuhn, Kuhn delves into the notion of paradigms and “normal” science, and how historical scientific ideas shape the way a contemporary scientist approaches their insights. Kuhn suggests that paradigm’s both restricts science into a rigid box yet are necessary for developing a better understanding. Is the “normal” method of doing science the best method even if it isn’t ideal? How could a scientist potentially do their research outside of the rigid box that Kuhn describes?
I also was intrigued in the first chapter when Kuhn tried to discuss the role of History in science and how contemporary science might completely disregard a old scientist’s brilliance without bringing to the table the context and constraints of which the scientist had to do his work by. Which could possibly cause contemporaries to potentially overlook past important discoveries. With that I bring the question should there be more biographical accounts of past scientists be added to the modern scientific canon?

Keshia

In chapter 2 Kuhn presents ideas about paradigm shifts in the electrical field as a leaping point for analyzing the way in which science develops these shifts and why.  In the example of electricity, the field of study was initially scattered and far from uniform. However difficult it was to sift through theories to find a semblance of likelihood for potentiality, it was a process sought out in laymen and was accessible to the scholarly and regular folk alike. As paradigm shifts began forming a generally acceptable theory about the processes of electricity and it’s place in nature, the terms used to describe it’s phenomenon became more refined and used expressly by and for other electricians. Is Kuhn attempting to say that this kind of narrowing of definition in scientific fields, and the inability of general populace to understand these concepts a cause for concern in regards to legitimacy? In essence, would Kuhn be suggesting that the narrowing of definitions through scientifically created terminology leads to blind faith in those we deem qualified to understand these terms?
If so, I feel I would likely agree in that using jargon to address a field of study, thus leaving the public in the dark leaves them to simply trust these terms as accurate. In my communication arts course last year I read about a study on human behaviour lead to a tendency for people to accept things they heard as truth simply because they couldn’t question or refute claims made by those deemed authoritative, which further begs the question: If we don’t know what someone is talking about how can we ever be sure about their legitimacy, or their accuracy in what they tell us. It’s like that scene in the movie “The Heat” starring Sandra Bullock and Melissa McCarthy where a man who’s choking isn’t successfully removing the obstruction via the Heimlich maneuver, so Sandra’s character attempts a tracheotomy based off of watching a documentary one time.

Breanna

As I read through the first few chapters of The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, a question that kept coming into my mind is, how do you change the paradigm? At the end of chapter 3, Kuhn says that challenging the paradigm is the start of scientific revolution. But if something has become so universally accepted, what does challenging it do for you? You’re taking a big risk by going against the paradigm. Of course, challenging it has produced results, as we continue to make advancements in science, but it seems kind of counterintuitive to go against the model. Do scientists want to prove paradigms to be false, or does that happen by accident when trying to expand the current paradigm’s correctness?
I like Kuhn’s analogy that science is like a constellation of facts, theories, and methods. It connects everything about science together. The one thing about this analogy is that, for me, when I think of a constellation, I can draw it in any order. We can’t go backwards in science, so I think I would rather think of the history of science like a tree. It grows from one idea/paradigm, then a new thought comes out of it, plants a new separate tree, and now the old tree stops growing while the new tree develops, but the old tree remains to keep history of what was once valid science. Kuhn says that paradigms help to focus research, but will we “run out” one day? That being, what would happen if a paradigm was fully accurate? Would that stop scientific research, or would people try to find any measure of falsifiability, since it has been argued that we can’t ever prove anything, but we can always falsify it?

Wes

I am a scientist that has drank the Kool-Aid (though more for practical reasons than blind acceptance.)  That said however, what if we accept that we are in a paradigm that may be usurped in the near-future?  This would make what we are living now to be a lie – most of our modern understanding a façade.  I feel like the longer this thread is pulled on, the more we realize that so much of what we know are built on flimsy supports that have shattered in the past – so why continue to pursue science?  The bulk of knowledge from past paradigms has been obscured by incompatibility with the latest greatest model….  What is the value of science if it’s been so fickle?  Is science then just a service industry having the sole purpose of improving the lives of those living in the bubble of a paradigm, while simultaneously looking to pop that same bubble?  If so, why do we put science on the pedestal as we do knowing that – at least historically – it is potentially a fleeting version of truth?  Or with each paradigm do we not simply live out a passing fad, but get closer to the actual nature of the universe?  Instead of there always being a new massive paradigm, do the shifts get smaller and smaller until we have fully defined and understood the universe, or at least reach the limit of our capacity to understand?

Billy

 My question for you revolves around the idea of a paradigm or thing that we hold to be true. If for example in science the paradigm is the absolute truth and is what research is based around, then how can fundamentally believe in any research. At one time it was fundamentally believed that the Earth was round, until we got better technology. So my question revolves around that fact. How can we as humans ever take something as an absolute fact or as a rule, if we are always developing new technologies, new research, and new ways to look at something? If there is always the possibility that what we are looking at could be proved to be false in say 50 or 100 years, how can we fundamentally say it is an absolute truth. We can’t? Can we? Anything we prove as an absolute rule could be proved false or could be sustained as the truth with further technology but how will we ever know that it is absolutely true. How do we know when to draw the line and say this can be a fundamental part of our research and this cant? Cause if one rule is broken but it is fundamental in the research of many things in that one field, do we discount it as a truth or do we just say it is an exception to the rule? Do we redefine the whole field or let it be? This may seem simple but it is very difficult to answer correctly, when you gauge the whole scope of what changing one thing in a particular field would have a ripple effect and change many aspects that you never even thought were involved. What would you do your paradigm suddenly shifted?

Rebecca

In chapter two Kuhn raises the notion of a paradigm: a common set belief or way of thinking. This allows a group of people to come together and agree but still be “sufficiently open ended”. This allows problems/issues to be resolved. Kuhn also brings forth the notion of “normal science”.  He describes this as “research based upon one or more past scientific achievements, achievements that some particular scientific community acknowledges for a time as supplying the foundation for its further practice”. Does this make “normal science” subjective? What if a completely new group of researches come along to disprove the fundamentals that previous researchers based their work off. Would that discredit all the work they had done?
Kuhn slightly touches on the idea that our concrete knowledge may not be so concrete. He discusses how “research proceeds […] according to the more elaborate and mathematical characterization from which this usual verbalization is derived. That characterization […] scarcely half a century old”. He suggests that as time goes along our concrete evidence changes. He states that “before it was developed by Planck, Einstein, and others early in this century, physics texts taught that light was transverse wave motion” which challenged the paradigm “that light was material corpuscles”.
My question is how do we proceed forward knowing our current theories are always being disproven and our concrete evidence may not be so concrete since there will always be paradigm shifts?

Emmanuel

In The First Chapter of SSR, Kuhn raises the Ideas of the history of science. He describes how historians themselves have had their own sort of paradigm shift. On page 3 he begins to bring up the notion that historians of science themselves “rather than seeking the permanent contributions of an older science to our present vantage, they attempt to display the historical integrity of that science in its own time”.  He brings fourth the idea that we can’t always rely on somebody’s interpretation of the past to guide our current scientific method and discovery. But that we must still take into consideration the past and previous sciences that have set the fundamentals that we base our current work off of. He describes the  educational institution as being “both rigours and rigid”. But calls into question the research that comes from stepping away from the solid rigid structure the educational institution has set up. He brings fourth the notion of arbitrariness, and how much of that plays a role into scientific development.

My question would be how do we find the right balance of trusting research and science from the past even though certain theories that we have based our fundamentals off of are being disproven?  And what do we do when there is such a paradigm shift in a certain area, do we just discredit the work that has been done before?